what causes a water source heat pump to run normal in cooling but high pressure in heating

Hey in that location,
I was working on a water source heat pump Trane series number# W04C11546 MN# GEVB02411J0110TL. The unit is an upflow with the compressor compartment being on the bottom and the fan and coil on summit.

The trouble is that the unit will run for about one minute in cooling mode then goes off on high head (400 psi r-22). Unit runs fine in heat. I replaced the txv to no avail. Believe the trouble is the reversing valve at this time, but was wondering what else could possibly be the cause every bit I normally work on standard split systems and packet units.

I am only working on this for my friend who has a loft in downtown LA. I run my business concern in the 'burbs, and h2o source heat pumps are rarely seen here.

This is by and large due to low or no water circulation. Sometimes it's due to a bad pressure switch, overcharge, or excessive inlet water temp. A bad (bypassing) RV causes low head. HTH.

Is there a strainer in the cond water line that could be stoped upwards?

I hold with the other two that a lack of water flow is the most likely culprit. Is in that location a circuit setter in the system that is to set correctly, or a restriction somewhere in your piping. Bank check your inlet and outlet h2o tempature. Y'all should take a resonable delta t, a very depression delta might tell you have to much flow, a very high delta might tell yous don't have enough flow.

To be sure that the lack of water flow is causing your trouble in that location is more data needed. Think virtually it...the tube in tube or what ever the exchanger is would too be used in estrus. If the strainer or flow was reduced so the unit of measurement would well-nigh likely also fail in heat due to low temperature cutout. If for some reason it did not fail you would notice that your suction pressure level was being effected by the decreased menstruation. Are you seeing the a low suction force per unit area in heat? Are you seeing 400 psi on your gauges during cooling or is this the cutout indicate of the switch? Let's kickoff there first and go from in that location.

I have seen many of these units that after multiple loss of water flow for whatever reason the high discarge force per unit area causes the inner tube of the condensor to completely flatten not assuasive any water flow. Yous tin can check your entering and leaving h2o for flow and pressure driblet.

good manner to get a lot of guessing is to inquire a question and requite no info.
what is your inbound and leaving water temp, superheat ,subcool,suction and discharge pressure, do you have a condenser water regulating valve of some sort. without info all your going to do is change a bunch of parts.

When in heating, the outlet h2o line gets nice and cold. - didn't accept the temp of it, merely it seems as though the water is flowing correctly. In cooling the opposite it true, outley water line gets very warm.

I take seen reversing valves on standard heat pumps be functional, only not open all the mode.. What troubles me is that when I've run into that in the by,the suction pressure level was through the roof. On this unit my low side is at the standard 65 psi. I don't take instrumentation for superheat/subcooling numbers, which I know would really help.

My temperature splits are right where they should be in rut and cool. 21 degrees in cooling , and 32 degrees in heat. I will besides add thatwhen I was recharging the unit after replacing the txv, it would have high head pressure but not get all the mode up to 400. I ran information technology undercharged for nearly 15 mins and the suction was at 40 psi with the caput pressure hovering around 290- 310.

I did purge the h2o lines in my initial diagnosis. There was a meaning amount of small debris in the bucktet afterward. Is there a strainer or filter in the water line?

Quote Originally Posted by PolarBearAir View Post

When in heating, the outlet water line gets nice and cold. - didn't accept the temp of information technology, simply it seems as though the water is flowing correctly. In cooling the opposite it true, outley water line gets very warm.

I take seen reversing valves on standard heat pumps be functional, merely not open all the manner.. What troubles me is that when I've run into that in the past,the suction force per unit area was through the roof. On this unit my low side is at the standard 65 psi. I don't accept instrumentation for superheat/subcooling numbers, which I know would actually help.

My temperature splits are right where they should be in oestrus and absurd. 21 degrees in cooling , and 32 degrees in heat. I will also add thatwhen I was recharging the unit subsequently replacing the txv, it would have high caput pressure but not go all the way up to 400. I ran it undercharged for well-nigh 15 mins and the suction was at 40 psi with the head pressure hovering around 290- 310.

I did purge the water lines in my initial diagnosis. There was a significant amount of small-scale debris in the bucktet afterwards. Is at that place a strainer or filter in the water line?

In a perfect world there should exist a strainer on the inlet of the unit of measurement. I think your condenser water side of the unit is where your trouble is.

If your reversing valve was bad both pressure would be overly loftier. Something like 350/120 or information technology would not exist changing from oestrus to cool.

Your water flow is not high enough, your h2o enter is to hot, or you have non-condensables in your refrigerant.

If you truly blew out the heat exchanger and your not over charged it has to be one of those 3 issues.

Make sure you don't have a water actuator with a filibuster in commencement and/or your compressor is starting after the actuator is 100% open.

My money is on the h2o is too hot. Your friends loft is probably connected to a h2o belfry that is well-nigh probable non getting the chemicals it is suppose to be and the tower fins are covered in scale.

Quote Originally Posted by PolarBearAir View Post

When in heating, the outlet water line gets nice and cold. - didn't take the temp of it, but it seems as though the water is flowing correctly. In cooling the reverse it true, outley h2o line gets very warm.

I take seen reversing valves on standard heat pumps be functional, but not open all the way.. What troubles me is that when I've run into that in the past,the suction pressure was through the roof. On this unit my low side is at the standard 65 psi. I don't accept instrumentation for superheat/subcooling numbers, which I know would actually aid.

My temperature splits are correct where they should be in estrus and absurd. 21 degrees in cooling , and 32 degrees in heat. I will also add thatwhen I was recharging the unit later on replacing the txv, information technology would have high head pressure level only not go all the way upwardly to 400. I ran information technology undercharged for about 15 mins and the suction was at 40 psi with the head pressure hovering around 290- 310.

I did purge the h2o lines in my initial diagnosis. There was a significant amount of small droppings in the bucktet afterwards. Is there a strainer or filter in the water line?

From this mail it sounds like there are two h2o lines connected to the heatpump unit. (Water inlet and h2o outlet) There should really never be a need to have an actuated valve on the main loop lines due to the fact that the water is only meant to exist a stable source of temperature media and it is supposed to be kept make clean and pure. On a typical system the inbound water temperature is kept betwixt 70-fourscore degrees at all times of the year. The leaving water temperature should accept a temp difference of six-8 degrees in rut mode and 10-12 degrees in the cooling mode. I am beginning to believe that incoming h2o and flow may be an upshot. If the inlet water was higher temperature than the recommended and the flow was reduced then your suction pressure has the chance to be well-nigh normal ranges. The load would yet exist present, even though the menstruation is reduced it is at a college temperature which would make up for the loss of menstruation. In heating the air coil is your condenser and the h2o coil is your evap. I believe (without being on site) that you lot could maintain running without consequence during heat way because of this higher loop temp. Simply when yous switch to cooling and your h2o scroll becomes your condenser the lack of flow and the college temp is detrimental because yous can non remove the heat and lower the pressure from the heat pump and the unit subsequently trips off. I was surprised to read the temp differences of 21 and 32 equally this numbers are loftier to begin with and they should be reversed meaning your outlet chief water loop should be higher in cooling not heating. Cooling - water coil - condenser - (hot) removes oestrus lowering the high side pressure in the heat pump refrigeration wheel.
Heating - water roll - evaporator- (common cold) adds heat and raises depression side pressure in the rut pump refrigeration cycle.

Check your inlet water temps and verify your outlet temps and meet where you stand proficient luck.

you tin can measure out temperature past whatsoever kind of wrap-on sensor, and before that you are guessing, and, what is frequent problem in maintenance work, if you stay stick by unproved hypothesis for as well long, information technology can drain your energy.

are you certain in whatever way that your heating mode is working properly? i mean if you are in some warm area, and outdoor temperature is very high now, yous tin can hardly check how heating system works with no load imposed on it.

Quote Originally Posted by marsmech View Post

I was surprised to read the temp differences of 21 and 32 as this numbers are high to begin with and they should be reversed meaning your outlet master h2o loop should be higher in cooling not heating. Cooling - water gyre - condenser - (hot) removes oestrus lowering the high side pressure in the heat pump refrigeration cycle.
Heating - water coil - evaporator- (cold) adds estrus and raises low side pressure in the rut pump refrigeration cycle.

Check your inlet h2o temps and verify your outlet temps and see where you stand skilful luck.

The temperature differentials I was referring to was for the air, non the h2o.

Yes there is a big cooling belfry on the roof of the building. Merely wouldn't everyone in the building be experiencing issues likewise?

Is it possible that my supply and return h2o lines were crossed during installation and im trying to cool with water that has already had a bunch of oestrus dumped into it from other tenants?

I guess my starting point should exist to get some pressure and temperature readings on the water inlet/outlet. Temperature is easy, only what should i utilize to get the pressures? At that place are shutoff valves on both the supply and return water lines that accept hose bib attachments. Do they make a pressure approximate that fits?

Thank you all for your responses, very much appreciated. Wish I had more experience with these things.

Quote Originally Posted by PolarBearAir View Post

T
Yes there is a large cooling belfry on the roof of the edifice. But wouldn't everyone in the edifice be experiencing problems likewise?
.

Non necessarily, if your friend'due south apartment is further down the pipe excursion or if your friend requires a lot of cooling. The other side of that is that yous blew out the pipe merely you don't know what kind of calcium build up is inside and your non gonna become all the calcium out with a high pressure purge.

Pop open ane cease of your piping and permit the water drain into a bucket for 10 secs measure the amount of water in Gallons and and then times it by 6. That is a quick and dirty way but information technology will get you what y'all need.

You lot should have an access tee with a close off valve somewhere on those water lines.

1st try Dorsum flushing the lines. (rinse out in opposite flow)

If that dont do anything, try some scale remover solution with a submersible pump.

If y'all resort to this, always reflush with some baking soda and water.

It neutralizes the chemic left over in the pipes, and stops corrosion in the future. I've experienced cracked estrus exchangers from not doing this. Before you know it, y'all have a water breach. And then your irresolute a whole hell of alot more than than you planned on.

What kind of pipage is it? If its copper pipe or pvc, you lot shouldnt demand to utilize chemical.
But if its blackness pipe (schedule 40 or suttin), yous tin accept alot of crud.

Permit's get the make and model of this matter maybe the manufacturer will permit united states freeze up the condenser to clean her upwards.

I agree with some sort of h2o catamenia issue. You most probable practice have a strainer on the inlet water to the unit of measurement. Your lines could be crossed merely not likely if it has been working for any menstruum of time before you began working on information technology.

WSHP's are prone to having fouled/stopped upwardly condensers if the tower water is not maintained properly. Based on what you accept posted so far, I would imagine you have a stopped up strainer, mineral/crud build up in the condenser, or a combination of the ii. As stated before, get it cleaned up ASAP simply make certain yous become all cleaning residue out of the system.......maintenance crew on an "unnamed military installation" nigh me cleaned 10 WSHP condensers and did not get cleaning residue out of them.........ten compressors went swimming from the inside..........and refrigeration oil in your condenser water is a little messy as well.

All that being said, information technology sounds like h2o flow issues of some kind. Not likely that your unit has any sort of automatic water flow command valve, just likely has a circuit setter. You should be able to cheque your pressure drops across condenser at PT ports (normally Trane supplies supply and return ball valves with built in PT ports forth with flexible connnections for each unit). If the installing contractor did non buy the connectedness kits with the units, so hopefully they installed PT ports on the pipe somewhere virtually the unit of measurement supply and return connections.

Good luck.

Surely water period issue. Just bank check the in and out temp, information technology will probably accept a big td. So similar anybody said, check for strainer, purge both ways, and y'all'll virtually likely need a chemical soak and flush because thats some nasty water and the unit has clearly not been maintained. If you still dont have effectually 10 degree td so its nearly probable a charge issue, but hooking upwardly gauges with a muddied or chock-full condenser is a waste of fourth dimension. Check for gpm specs but if theres any damage to the condenser youll ned to adjust flow to get desired temps. And like johnny said, any cleaner that will work well is very acidic and needs to be thouroughly rinsed.

Quote Originally Posted by PolarBearAir View Post

The temperature differentials I was referring to was for the air, not the h2o.

Yes there is a big cooling tower on the roof of the building. But wouldn't everyone in the building be experiencing issues besides?

Is it possible that my supply and return water lines were crossed during installation and im trying to cool with water that has already had a agglomeration of heat dumped into information technology from other tenants?

I guess my starting signal should be to get some pressure and temperature readings on the water inlet/outlet. Temperature is easy, but what should i use to get the pressures? At that place are shutoff valves on both the supply and return water lines that have hose bib attachments. Do they make a pressure gauge that fits?

Give thanks you lot all for your responses, very much appreciated. Wish I had more experience with these things.

Have you checked the loop circ pmp discharge pressure level? this should give yous a starting point. Does the unit of measurement have a circuit setter? if information technology does it should have the test ports you can utilise.

I have a h2o furnace oestrus pump
Model eal20 atv series and the loftier pressure switch light comes on shutting down the system
Is this a bad switch and how practise I bank check it

what causes a water source heat pump to run normal in cooling but high pressure in heating

Water source oestrus pump high caput pressure

Sounds similar you might be getting somewhere!!

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